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 new tomb design

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whitehound
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PostSubject: new tomb design   Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:26 am

A new and probably final design for Richard's tomb has been unveiled. In some ways I'm disappointed because I liked that big rose on the floor around him - but OTOH this version puts his name and dates and heraldy onto a solid slab of granite, meaning that there's almost no risk - as there was with the tiled floor - that in future eras the design will break up and be lost and people will no longr know who he was. This way he'll still be known five thousands years from now, like the pharoahs of Egypt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-27865860

And it's a nice big side chapel. They're going to need that space, because I confidently predict that Ricardians from all over the world will want to be married in that chapel.
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Constantia

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:48 pm

Well, thank goodness for the granite plinth with his name, dates, and badge, but too bad (in my view) that the tomb itself still looks like a giant shoebox with horizontal and vertical rubber bands. Richard himself might have appreciated the symbolism of the cross, but for me it's too stark and not remotely beautiful. Maybe it will look better covered with the inevitable bouquets of white roses.
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whitehound
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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:05 pm

I rather like it - I think it has grandeur. Something which hasn't been made much of is that according to this article http://blog.everythingdinosaur.co.uk/blog/_archives/2013/09/19/swaledale-fossil-limestone-for-king-richards-tomb.html the white block is to be made from Swaledale limestone - Swaledale being one dale over from Wensleydale, where Middleham is. I like this, because it shows that the designer of the tomb is thinking about Richard as a person and about his connection with Yorkshire, and is making his tomb out of stone he would have ridden past in life.

Also, Swaledale limestone is full of crinoid fossils, made of calcite, so when it's polished it won't just be a stark white block - it will be slightly translucent and full of the strange, glittering lights you get in calcite, and half-seen flower-like forms. It's just a pity that crinoids look more like tulips than roses Smile
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Thibault

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:28 pm

There is also the new stained glass window which will flood the area and the tomb with light of many colours. I have seen this effect in some French Cathedrals (Nevers springs to mind) and it is extremely effective.

It has been interesting reading the comments on various media. I think that for some, it wouldn't matter if the Archangel Michael came down with a tomb design from on high, they wouldn't like it purely because of the location of the burial place itself.

In many ways, to have tried to create a 'medieval style' tomb would have made it look rather like a film set. This design has a stark simplicity which is overall very effective.
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whitehound
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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:11 am

Yes.  I'm not sure if it was the best that could have been done but it's certainly pretty good and it's a peice of actual sculpture, something significant.  I never cared for the design submitted by the Society: it might have looked better in real life than simulation but it was too *ordinary*, with that flush gilded lettering - too much something you could see in any modern graveyard.  A lost king deserves something striking.

Really, I think instead of nitpicking we should be glad that Richard is being given so much honour and fame.  A couple of months ago they found a bone which belongs either to Alfred the Great or to a close relative buried with him, and more recently some great Anglo-Danish king was found, and they're just going to end up in a box in a museum, while Richard gets a tomb and a chapel and a crown and *two* personal museums and people fighting for the honour of housing him.  We should be happy for him.
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phaecilia

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:51 pm

I'm glad to see that Michael Ibsen will make Richard's coffin. I hope that the rest of the process will be less contentious, more respectful than it has so far. I still have the uncomfortable feeling that the Ricardians who made all this possible are being sidelined. I hope I'm wrong.

phaecilia
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Thibault

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:09 pm

I think much of the outpourings all over the Internet with the emotive rants and frequent almost libelous statements have done much to damage the image of the Society and Ricardians in general. If it doesn't begin to moderate soon, it runs the risk of alienating the very people we want to understand the real Richard and his life and times and will only confirm their idea that Ricardians are fruit cakes.
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whitehound
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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:18 pm

Unfortunately a significant minority of Ricardians are people who, were Richard actually to meet them, would probably cause him to hide behind the nearest pillar until they went away....
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Constantia

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:55 am

Thibault wrote:
This design has a stark simplicity which is overall very effective.

If you like stark simplicity! But, then, a shoebox--or a plain pine box--also has stark simplicity. I would have preferred elegant simplicity. But enough said. Taste isn't debatable.
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whitehound
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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:46 pm

Now my mother doesn't like the plain white block because far from being stark, she thinks it's too girly!

What would be really cool is if some archaeologist could find what happened to the original painted-marble tomb effigy. There's plenty of room in that chapel to display it on a side-wall, if we could find it. I know the story about Richard's coffin being thrown into the Soar duri9ng the Dissolution was used to excuse somebody's failure to locate his grave, but I do wonder if there was a measure of truth in it, and it was his effigy which went into the river. If so, it should still be down there.
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MAHibbard

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:25 am

I'm relieved that at last, things are starting to move forward. As for the design itself? I certainly don't hate it, but am not in love with it, either. I guess it's a bit too plain for me, but as has been said before, much of this has to do with personal taste more than anything else.

When I see the picture with the cross etched into the stone, it immediately brings a Templar cross to mind. Remembering what I've read of Richard's own desire to go on Crusade, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Of the proposals I've seen and read about, I still find that I like the Society's best. It was simple yet elegant. However, that was rejected for an assortment of reasons, so I'm more than happy to leave it go at that, and ignore the negativity that has surrounded this issue for far too long.
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Thibault

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:58 pm

I think it is difficult to appreciate what it will look like in reality from he CGI presented so far. If you listen to the Cathedral's press conference (it's on YouTube) they explain the symbolism of the incised cross and the effect of light in the area of the tomb.
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whitehound
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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:07 am

Yes. In CGI it just looks flat and dead white, but if it's really to be limestone with calcite in it it will be glittering and alive-looking. I used to sell semi-precious stones for (part of) my living, and calcite was one of my great favourites, second only to labradorite. You can see about an inch into it and there's so much going on inside it, you can look at it for hours.

In fact, if it's to be limestone with calcite and crinoid fossils in it, it probably *needs* to be a very plain white block, because the stone will be quite "busy" in itself, and carving elaborate shapes on top of the crinoids would give people spots before the eyes. A more elaborate tomb would probably require a less eye-catching stone, and that would be a pity, because imo the idea of making his tomb from stone quarried near Middleham is a lovely - and loving - touch.
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Verity

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:27 am

I've only just joined, so I'm 6 months late in reading this!
If only I'd known the qualities of this type of stone before .....it would have saved me a lot of heartache!
I do believe the cathedral have been somewhat remiss in not 'selling' this properly, or maybe they just wanted to surprise most of us when it is revealed.
Anyway, many thanks, whitehound.
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Jasmine

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Sat May 02, 2015 3:16 am

Has anyone seen the tomb in 'real' life? If so, what is the impression of the stone and lighting effects?
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khafara

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PostSubject: Re: new tomb design   Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:03 pm

Jasmine wrote:
Has anyone seen the tomb in 'real' life?  If so, what is the impression of the stone and lighting effects?

I'm curious, too!

Tamara
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