The Richard III Network
Welcome to The Richard III Network. We hope you enjoy your visit and consider joining our forum.


A forum where you can discuss King Richard III and anything related to his life and times.
 
HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Wednesday
Admin
avatar

Posts : 137
Join date : 2014-03-19

PostSubject: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:03 am

I read somewhere that when Richard was in exile with his brother Edward, Hastings, and about 200 others (after Warwick's invasion in 1470), we don't know whether Charles of Burgundy supported Edward and his men, or if they had to live off the land. (Nothing like having your brother-in-law show up on your doorstep with 200 uninvited guests needing fed and sheltered.)

So what do you think? Did Richard and the others have to sleep under trees and snare bunnies? Did they sell their armor...if they even brought their armor?

These are the sorts of questions my mind dredges up when I'm in the shower.   Wink 
Back to top Go down
http://richardiiinetwork.forumotion.com
NicolasLeBecheur

avatar

Posts : 5
Join date : 2014-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:33 am

Richard Baldwin's biography (p. 52) cites an article by L Visser-Fuchs ('Richard in Holland, 1471-2') in The Ricardian, vi. no. 82 (1983), p.24, stating that Duke Charles, after two months of prevarication and correspondence, finally lent tangible support to Edward on 31 December 1470, prompted by King Louis' capture of St Quentin.
Back to top Go down
NicolasLeBecheur

avatar

Posts : 5
Join date : 2014-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:38 am

Meanwhile, I reckon Louis de Gruuthuyse was good for a loan. His generosity and trust in Edward had paid off after Edward's previous exile.
Back to top Go down
Colyngbourne

avatar

Posts : 11
Join date : 2014-03-21

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:40 am

There's some detail about this period in Josephine Wilkinson's RIII The Young King to Be. I will have a look at it.
Back to top Go down
Constantia

avatar

Posts : 95
Join date : 2014-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:04 pm

NicolasLeBecheur wrote:
Meanwhile, I reckon Louis de Gruuthuyse was good for a loan. His generosity and trust in Edward had paid off after Edward's previous exile.

I suspect you're right. And what about Caxton? Or Margaret of York? Did she offer her brothers any aid? I'm almost certain that they visited her at some point in their exile. Unfortunately, the book that comes to my mind at the moment is not a biography but Sharon Kay Penman's well-researched novel, The Sunne in Splendour.

I think I have Baldwin's biography of Richard on Kindle, if you mean David Baldwin's Richard III, but my computer's Kindle application seems to have expired. Guess I'd better attempt to update it so I can see what he says on the matter.
Back to top Go down
Wednesday
Admin
avatar

Posts : 137
Join date : 2014-03-19

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:31 pm

Constantia wrote:
And what about Caxton? ...

I think I have Baldwin's biography of Richard on Kindle, if you mean David Baldwin's Richard III, but my computer's Kindle application seems to have expired. Guess I'd better attempt to update it so I can see what he says on the matter.


What year did Caxton come over to open his bookmaking operation just outside Westminster? I know it was while Edward was king, but...hmm...did Caxton move shop after meeting the charismatic king during his exile?

I haven't got David Baldwin's Richard III. What sort of writer is he?
Back to top Go down
http://richardiiinetwork.forumotion.com
Constantia

avatar

Posts : 95
Join date : 2014-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:05 pm

Wednesday wrote:


What year did Caxton come over to open his bookmaking operation just outside Westminster? I know it was while Edward was king, but...hmm...did Caxton move shop after meeting the charismatic king during his exile?

I haven't got David Baldwin's Richard III. What sort of writer is he?

I can't recall when Caxton came over to England, but I'm almost sure it was after Tewkesbury and that he met Richard (and Edward) during Richard's second exile in Burgundy. That may have been when Caxton formed his idea of Richard as a chivalrous young knight whom others should emulate. (Just a thought, but Richard was certainly demonstrating loyalty and courage just by being there.)

Baldwin's book is yet another attempt to present Richard "objectively" in the context of his times. I haven't read it since 2012 so it's not fresh in my mind, but if I recall correctly, he's nowhere near as hostile as Michael Hicks but not as pro-Richard as, say, Annette Carson. If you have a Kindle, it's probably worth the $7.49 to download it. To get back to Caxton, Baldwin doesn't mention him except in connection with Richard's books.

What's that source with all the chronologies for Richard and his associates? We could look for Caxton there. I thought it was girders.com, but clearly not--unless we're looking for building materials or diabetic testing supplies!
Back to top Go down
Wednesday
Admin
avatar

Posts : 137
Join date : 2014-03-19

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:35 pm

Constantia wrote:
What's that source with all the chronologies for Richard and his associates? We could look for Caxton there. I thought it was girders.com, but clearly not--unless we're looking for building materials or diabetic testing supplies!

You were close, it's girders.net. But I can't locate Caxton on it, perhaps someone else can.

I've dug out a book I have called, England in the Age of Caxton, written by Geoffrey Hindley.

Edward, Richard, et. al. went into exile in October 1470. Hindley says Caxton opened his first workshop "in Westminster in 1476, in between the buttresses of the chapter house near the entrance to the south transept of the Abbey (the door that now leads to Poet's Corner)." The shop was on the path that linked the chapter house and the Palace of Westminster.

He moved to a asecond location in the 1480s just inside the Abbey precincts at the gate leading to the Almonry when he had need of more storage space. This second shop is presumed to be the one at the sign of the Red Pale.

I always thought Caxton was from Burgundy, but he was born in Kent around 1421 and died in 1491. He may have been present at the burning of the Lollard priest Sir Richard Wyche, vicar of Harmondsworth on St. Botolphus Day in 1440, but I digress. He went to Bruges in 1441 after the death of his master, who left him £13 (basically a year's income for a minor squire). His master didn't provide for Caxton's ongoing apprenticeship.

About Edward IV in exile, the book says only that "he and his party had to rely on the generosity of the Lord of Gruithuis for transport to the Burdundian court and decent clothes," but that only references Edward's arrival in Burgundy after the narrow escape from Warwick's invasion.

So we can't tell from this book when Edward met Caxton.
Back to top Go down
http://richardiiinetwork.forumotion.com
Constantia

avatar

Posts : 95
Join date : 2014-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:38 pm

Charles Ross's Edward IV is no help, either, except that it cites an article by Margaret Kekewich called "Edward IV, William Caxton, and Literary Patronage in England," Modern Language Review, lxvi (1971), pp. 481-7, which might well be useful if we could access it, along with an 1861(!) biography of Caxton by someone named W. Blades. But given that Edward, Richard, and Anthony Woodville were all at some point closely associated with Caxton and that Caxton was evidently in Bruges from 1441 to 1476, when he set up shop in Westminster (close to Edward), it makes sense that he met and befriended all three (Edward, Richard, and Rivers) during the 1470-71 exile. But whether he was in a position to offer them aid and shelter (in addition to the aid given by de Gruuthuyse), I don't know.

I just realized that Margaret of York had connections with Caxton. According to Christine Weightman's Margaret of York: The Diabolical Duchess (a deceptive title; it's a favorable biography), he was the Dean of the Merchant Adventurers at Bruges, and soon after her wedding in 1468 became her financial advisor, translator, and printer. It makes sense that she would have introduced him to her brothers after Charles relented (or needed Edward's aid), in which case, they would no longer have needed aid and comfort when they met him. And since Margaret, according to the same biography, secretly corresponded with Edward and sent him money, maybe they didn't need aid and comfort at all. Still, the Caxton/Edward/Richard relationship is interesting and worth pursuing. Too bad the biographers say so little about it.

At any rate, to get back to our original topic, any rumors that the York brothers (or their men) were starving or freezing (despite Edward's having paid for ship's passage with a fur-lined cloak) appear to be greatly exaggerated.
Back to top Go down
Constantia

avatar

Posts : 95
Join date : 2014-03-22

PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:24 pm

One last item re Caxton: I went to girders.net, which sent me to Sir Clements Markham, who says:

"When, in October 1470, Edward IV. and his young brother Richard took refuge in Flanders, they received active assistance from the loyal merchant and printer, and in the same year Caxton entered the service of the Duchess Margaret . . . ."

Markham, Clements R. (Clements Robert) (2011-06-28). Richard III: His Life & Character Reviewed in the Light of Recent Research (Kindle Locations 1645-1647).  . Kindle Edition.

Unfortunately, Markham cites no source directly, but he does mention that Caxton left an account of himself, which is probably where Markham found this information.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others   

Back to top Go down
 
Richard's Exile in Flanders with Edward IV, Hastings & 200 Others
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» 27 Edward Snowden Quotes About U.S. Government Spying That Should Send A Chill Up Your Spine
» Edward Thomas - an interview with his biographer Matthew Hollis
» Edward Lear - no-nonsense artwork!
» FEMA Camps: City to Exile the Homeless; It’s not a Conspiracy Theory Anymore
» Polish Cap Badge

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Richard III Network :: RICHARD'S LIFE as DUKE OF GLOUCESTER :: General Discussion-
Jump to: