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 an early Tudor

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whitehound
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PostSubject: an early Tudor   Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:43 pm

I've seen it said that the Tudors weren't Welsh royalty but were decended from somebody's steward. However, this evening I came across a mention of a Rhys ap Tudor Mawr, prince of South Wales, who was killed in a battle with William Rufus in 1093. Anybody know if he's connected to the 15th C Tudors?
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MAHibbard

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PostSubject: Re: an early Tudor   Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:47 pm

I did a quick lookup of Rhys ap Tudor (or Tewdwr) Madrid, and read where he was an 11th century king of Deheubarth in SW Wales, and a descendant of Rhodri the  Great. The article also states that Henry VII was a matrilineal descendant of Rhys...but it looks like there are a few centuries separating Henry's family from the Welsh royalty of Rhys.


Last edited by MAHibbard on Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: an early Tudor   Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:48 pm

Stupid auto correct! Look what it did to Rhys's name! Argh!
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PostSubject: Re: an early Tudor   Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:19 am

I was wondering about that. So, it looks like Henry really *did* have Welsh royal blood, but it was more diluted than Richard's, since iirc Richard was descended from Llewellyn the Great.
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PostSubject: Re: an early Tudor   Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:16 am

For grins and giggles (and my own natural curiosity), I copied out some of what Wikipedia has to say about Rhys ap Tewdwr:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhys_ap_Tewdwr wrote:
Rhys ap Tewdwr, a member of the House of Dinefwr, claimed the throne of Deheubarth following the death of his second cousin Rhys ab Owain, who was beheaded after the battle of Gwdig (modern day Goodwick) against Caradog ap Gruffydd in 1078.

He was a grandson of Cadell ab Einion ab Owain ab Hywel Dda, and a great-grandson of Einon ab Owain, thus a descendant of Hywel Dda, king of the Britons. He married Gwladys ferch Rhiwallon daughter of Rhiwallon ap Cynfyn of the Mathrafal dynasty of Powys, by whom he had four sons, Gruffudd, Hywel ap Rhys, Goronwy and Cadwgan, and a daughter Nest who married Gerald de Windsor, Constable of Pembroke, progenitors of the FitzGerald and de Barry dynasties of Ireland. These Hiberno-Norman, or Cambro-Norman, families have been Peers of Ireland since at least the 14th century.

The English variant of Tewdwr is Tudor. Henry Tudor, King of England was a matrilineal descendant of Rhys ap Tewdwr.
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